From: "When Harry Met Sally"
Harry: You realize of course that we could never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form - is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: No you don't.
Sally: Yes I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all WANT to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So, you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?
Harry: No. You pretty much want to nail 'em too.
Sally: What if THEY don't want to have sex with YOU?
Harry: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.
Sally: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.
Harry: I guess not.
Sally: That's too bad. You were the only person I knew in New York.
Did you see that movie? I LOVED it. It is still one of my favorites. So what do you think? Can men and women be just friends? I used to have lots of male friends. It was never easy. But my female friendships haven't been a bucket of joy either. Slowly over the years my male friendships have dwindled away. They got girlfriends or wives and I was history. The handfull of male friends I had left when I met Jake scattered with the wind when I got married. Please, don't get me wrong, I still keep in touch with a few of those guys but it just isn't the same. When I was single I would "assess" each man I met. Looks, Personality, Sense of Humor, Has a Job, Would I date him?, Would I be his type?, Any longterm potential?, etc... Most single girls do this without even really thinking. If I didn't see any potential of a romantic future we could be friends. I am not saying those guys weren't worthy of dating ME, there were all sorts of reasons a man wouldn't have "potential". For example, if my sister or friend dated or liked a guy, he was automatically off limits. From the moment I decided that he was then off my dating radar. If the guy liked one of my friends first and later realized he was madly in love with me...too late. He was off limits. That is just how I operated. I know not everyone is like that but if they were there would be fewer talk shows! So that is how it was when I was single. Now I am married. Seriously, when I met Jake and we decided to get married I stopped assessing men. I didn't need to anymore. I just see men as people not anything else. Maybe I am like Sally, naive. I don't know. I do have men in my life now. I don't think twice about it. For example, Ivan, Tim or Eric, my brother-in-laws...I hang out with them. Ivan and I went geocaching together, I didn't think twice about it. Tim has stopped over when Jake wasn't home and Eric has spent a lot of time at my house when Jake isn't around. Same with my father-in-law. I don't even think about it. Well, I have a friend who said she thinks it is weird...she would never do anything like that. Hmmm. Then Jake has a friend...I think the guy is afraid of me. We get along great. He comes home with Jake for dinner a couple of times a week. He is single. But I saw him at a school, when Jake wasn't there, I stopped to chat with him...he acted really weird. Then he came over for dinner last week and Jake wasn't home yet, he wouldn't come in until Jake got there 3-4 minutes later. That is fine, I don't want him to be uncomfortable but I just don't think like that. Am I wrong? Is it too complicated for men and women to be friends? I trust my husband. I certainly trust myself. Sure I don't want Jake talking to some girl who pretends like I don't exsist or doesn't make an effort to get to know me, but I want him to be friends with my friends. When they call I want him to chat with them. Jake and my sister went shopping together. Not weird. Jake talked to LeAnn (Jim's wife) on the phone for a half hour. Also not weird. Likewise, I want to be friends with his friends.
So, what do you think...Can men and women be friends?
17 comments:
They can be as long as there is no underlying attraction there. It's difficult, though. If you're both single and you would be friends, why wouldn't you just date?
As I mentioned, there are lots of reasons two single people may not date. For example, I was friends with this guy for years. He is very attractive and the sweetest guy. But, we met because he had a huge crush on my best friend. They never dated but he and I became friends and we never crossed that line. We went to school together, worked together, even went on vacation together. I never even kissed him. We went to each other's weddings. I think we'd still be great friends but we live far apart. Although we got along fabulously as friends, we wouldn't have lasted a half a second if we dated. We are very different. Does this make sense? Either way, I am married now and I guess the real question is, When you are married can you still be friends with the opposite sex? I never thought it was a problem but apparently some others think I (and the hubby) are crazy.
Oh yeah...my sister also had a crush on that guy, so that made him double off limits.
I agree wholeheartedly that males and females can be friends. Through the years I've been good friends with many females without having any sexual overtones. I can understand how a friendship could develop into something else if you don't maintain proper boundaries. Linda and I both talk to our friends whether they be male or female. It is not unusual for one of us to talk to a member of the opposite sex for extended periods of time. This question reminds me of another male/female discussion topic. Should male minister to females and visa versa?
In some youth ministry, they separate males and feamles and females lead females while males lead males. Sounds too amish to me! Good discussion for another day!
I think it is possible to be friends with the opposite sex. But.... the person of the opposite sex must also be friends with your spouse. For example while living in Texas I had a crush on a certian girl and we actually went (attempted to date)out a couple of times. We were pretty close while I lived in Texas and occasionally talked on the phone when I moved back to Ohio. Delilah never liked for me talk to her. For a while I really couldn't understand why. I didn't have feelings for her and I considered her to be a friend. Nothing more or nothing less. But, when I did talk to her she never really attempted to acknowledge Delilah in our conversations. So...... with that said, I think it is possible to be friends with the opposite sex while married, but the friendship can never enter a deeper plane than any area of your marriage. For, once that happens, you are replacing that area in your marriage with that friend.
I hope all this made sense.
I have strong feelings on this subject. As you probably already know. My marriage is the most important thing in the world to me. I will protect it at any cost. Men and women are very different in that women "assess" as you say and men "undress". You need to consider the other sex. You talk about the line you refuse to cross but I have a line before the line so I am not tempted to cross the line. Chuck Swindell said that the man who says he does not have a problem with lusting after women will probably cheat. My Dad once told me that "chicken is finger lickin' good and one thing leads to another." You may be as strong as the mighty oak but others may not be. Your male friend may not be. Be careful not to make your brother stumble. Also remember that in your weakness you will be made strong. Admitting I am a man (and therefore weak in this area)is what makes me strong and gives me the integrity to face temptation. Let us not forget the frog in the pot of warm water. Also how Joseph chose to deal with another mans wife...He ran. That is the man side of the dilemma.
Now for the woman's side. You said when you were single you would "assess men and "Most single girls do this without even really thinking." Most married women do not have a switch or are incapable of turning it off. I appreciate that it is not a problem with you but in general it is; as evident in the # of failed marriages due to infidelity (the # 2 reason for divorce). If you think those were caused by only men cheating think again. 66% were due to the woman's infidelity (I was one of them). I warn anyone who values their marriage to gaurd yourself!! Satan prows like a lion waitng to devour and destroy what belongs to God. You need to defend and protect what is God's.
I apoligize if this offends anyone as I said earlier...I have strong feelings about this one so does God.
Well put balloonman.
Yes it is very much possible more a man and a woman to just be friends. I have guys friends and it will never be more than that between us. None of us have ever wanted to date each other, we just like to hang out. Well, I only hang out with one of my guy freinds anymore and I actually haven't seen him for awhile. But, yeah, it can and does happen all the time.
Okay, I too have strong opinions on the subject. I have lived most of my life with several male friends, sometimes more male than female. There were many times when I thought the relationships were completely platonic, and found out later the male had a crush on me. There were also times when I had the crush and it was not reciprocated. I feel there is a VERY fine line between friendship and a romantic relationship between males and females. When you are friends with someone and get to know them so well, sometimes it's inevitable. Most of the time in those sitautions, I think the person that has the feelings even supresses them because they know it is one-sided, and would jeopardize the relationship. That is why you may THINK it was "just a friendship," but the whole time the other person may have had feelings for you. Does that mean there should not be male/female friendships? I don't think so. But it is definately a debatable subject! As far as those types of friendships in a marriage, when I was married and with any other long-term relationship I have had, I did not have male friends. At least not single ones. It's always nice to have couple friends. That doesn't mean that married people SHOULDN'T have friends of the opposite sex, but there definately needs to be that solid trust factor involved, which you and Jake seem to have!
Being single...yes you can have friendships with the opposite sex. When you are married - different story. Yes - you can "talk" to the opposite sex. But as far as spending long periods of time alone with someone, talking to someone for a long time, seeking out things to do (go out to lunch, sharing intimate details, etc.) is wrong. God does not condone that. It has nothing to do with trust. I trust my husband totally - but that doesn't mean it's right for me to have a close friendship with another man. What is there to talk about anyways for that long of a time? I should be discussing things with my husband - not another man. It could lead you down a path where you don't want to go and you may have every intention of not "cheating" but things can happen without intending to. Not to mention - it just does not look right. You should never put yourself in a position that would leave people to wonder what is going on.
I don't think that there is a broad answer for that question. It depends on the situation. I think it is possible but agree with Balloonman that you have to be very careful. I definetly agree with Jake that you can't ever share more with the friend than the spouse! Talking from a married perspective . . .
When Tim worked at the nursing homes he had lots of female friends. He would "hang out" with them at work, go to lunch ect. It was never a problem between us, I think for two reasons. Our marriage was solid and he was completely honest wtih me about them.
For instance there was one girl who he had become friends with who knew he was married but was very clear that she wished he wasn't. We tried having her over to our house to both be friends with her, but it didn't seem to change much. We talked about it and Tim took it from "hanging out" at work to polite co-workers.
Wow! Thanks for all the "deep" feedback. I totally agree with everything y'all said. Funny, I was thinking about my post while driving today and I came to the conclusion that I have been insensitive at times by only seeing a relationship from my perspective...not from the guys perspective. So, I guess it is important to be on the same page. That is where it gets complicated (as Toys R Us Kids talked about). It is awkward and you never know just when to approach the subject. Now that I am married it is easier because it is a given BUT, like Balloonman pointed out...infidelity is huge problem in marriages. Everyone knows someone this has effected. Jake and I have had conversations discussing what we would do if either of us felt attracted to someone else...what would we do to safeguard our marriage. Not that we are looking but sometimes you can't deny that people have "chemistry" between them. That is okay and something you can't change...but I feel strongly that pursuing those feelings of attraction is foolish and will only end in disaster. I also think you can be unfaithful to your spouse without touching another person. Have you seen the movie "Spanglish"? I hated that movie. The wife has cheap meaningless sex with her realitor. The husband has a deep meaningful "friendship" with the nanny. Both things sickened me and I think both actions are deplorable. I guess the bottom line is...there is such a fine line. If you are married, it is better to be safe than sorry.
Balloonman- You are correct. Not all women have that switch. I think a lot of people in general go from assessing if they would date someone to (when they are married) assessing if they would date them if they were single. I don't agree with doing that. I don't plan on ever being single again and I could care less if I would have dated that person in the past. I once had a boyfriend who told my best friend he would date her if he wasn't dating me. What a jerk. I had been dating him for years!
In reference to Jake's comment...Jake had a crush on the girl and she didn't like him back. But she kept him around "just in case"...Trust me ALL SINGLE WOMEN have a few of those "just in case men" on the back burner. She not only never attempted to get to know me but she never even acknowledged that Jake got married. She would loose touch, then start emailing again when she would break up with a boyfriend. I don't think she consciously realized she was doing this but from personal experience I KNOW.
I think men and women can be friends but the world puts too much inuendo on these relationships. I also think that keeping comfotable standards also goes a long way. Like Jake's friend. I think he is showing Jake and you much respect by not putting himself in a position where anything can be misinterpreted. The more he gets to know you guys the more he will relax. I tell Jen everytime I run into or talk to a mutual femalre friend on the phone so there is no room for any misinterpretation.
Brad.
Did Jesus stay away from members of the opposite sex? This posts and the comments gave me much food for thought. Everyone has to make their own decision on where to take friendships. Even same sex friendships can be wrong (with or without sexual connotations). If your friendship with your buddies are more important to you than the friendship with your spouse, something is wrong. If our relationship with our Lord is out of kelter than probably our other friendships will suffer also. On the other hand, if Christ lives within us (different from trying to be like Christ) then we can have healthy relationships with either sex.
The Lord taught me this lesson early in my walk and I will share this in my next post.
I was hoping for more feedback today...if you have more to say, I am still reading!
Yes, men and women can be friends. The ONLY person that I stay in touch with from my class in high school is a guy. We grew up together. He was my best friend in high school. He is married, and nothing is weird. He began dating his wife in high school, and she was a little intimidated by me. I guess she saw me as a threat. His mom had a little talk with her at one point(still in high school), and pretty much told her that I was absolutely no threat whatsoever. She got over it and now she's a good friend also. I've had other male friends- Ivan, Corey (he's gay, though), and it's not been an issue.
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